tearsoftheascended.enjin.com
 
HomeMemberlistFAQSearchUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Examining the Fractals Paradigm

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:21 pm

*Disclaimer -This guide is based solely on the experiences of those mentioned throughout the guide and is not intended to be the "meta" for fractals. If you disagree with anything stated within the guide please feel free to leave a comment and let us know why you disagree with it and what you think should be changed. Please refrain from flaming the guide or just leaving negative comments. We are wanting this guide to change the way people think about their group setups and how they could better form a team to take on harder content.*

Examining the Fractals Paradigm
 FotM 48 and Beyond

Introduction

It has recently come to my attention that we are lacking an endgame tactics guide based on a team rather than a profession. So with the help of Chucks, Abyss, and Reihn I have decided to write this guide for the
Guild Wars 2 end game.

Now the first thing you might think when reading the previous sentence is "what endgame?" That is to be expected. After all it has been put into our head that GW2 has no endgame. That is an ill informed notion. Currently, GW2 has an endgame. It simply lacks the rewards you would see in endgames from other games. The endgame in GW2 (currently) is Fractals of the Mists (FotM). While many people find it unchallenging at lower levels. The real challenges come at 40+ FotM--and soon 50+. While the only reward at this level is an increased chance for fractals weapons it is something that may soon change. We know Anet is working on new fractals and with this it could possibly bring more rewards. This, coupled with the new ascended weapons, are driving people into the higher levels. As it stands most people hover around FotM 26, even less in the 30s, and beyond that a much smaller fraction at 40+. This guide is intended to help people who want to push up those levels and act as the foundation to their progression in FotM, as well as improve the capabilities of veterans.  

While many people have done highend fractals, the problem I find most common--even among veterans--is the GW1 attitude towards the dungeon. In GW1 people became extremely comfortable with builds in highend areas and it became so routine that many didn't really have to think about their job in a given team setup.  In GW2 that mentality produces a major problem.  When people run the same builds in the same dungeons and continuously complete those dungeons, they think that there is no need to improve.  After all the dungeon gets completed. Completion in GW2, however, is completely different than completion in GW1.  In GW1 a team could actually fail, while in GW2 failing isn't really an option (waypoints etc.). Thus, the problem with a complacent mentality in GW2 is the idea that if it works than that's all that matters.  This is why a PUG fractals 48 may take almost 2 hours, PUGs think that because a build works there is no need to improve. This should be unacceptable justification for a bad build.  These bad builds may work on an event but in a team setting where synergy is important they can drag everyone else down.

If you are already at 48, I implore you to continue reading. This next bit gets into the details of how a solid team can be made for FotM and even applied to other areas of the game including Arah and various other dungeons. While you read this please keep an open mind because all of these tactics and mindsets have been practiced and regularly produce smooth, quick runs, and may contridict ideas that the population in general holds for FoTM 40+.


The Team:
 
The Builds:
 

The Maps
Below I will talk about each fractal map and times will be posted along with major fight strategies in a FotM 48 team setting.

Swampland:
 
Snowblind:
 
Cliffside:
 
Volcanic:
 
Underground Facility:
 
Urban:
 
Aquatic:
 
Uncatergorized:
 
The Maw:
 

Outlook 

As I've stated, many may have known most of these strategies is finding a team the provides good DPS and all the players in that team can provide unselfish utility.  I've heard so many people say "well this works for me!"  Great, go do The shatterer.  When it comes to the endgame you should NOT do what works for you!  You should do what works for the team, always.  

I'm sorry for the mountain of text but I know updates are coming to fractals and once the 50 cap is lifted more and more people will want to move up and I want to make sure that members of this guild are ready for the next level of play.

DC Comics sucks.


Last edited by Skittles on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:22 pm

Me and some others are going to be constantly updating this.  

Next update:
Pictures
Times for all fractals.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Albus [HRUU]
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 225
Join date : 2010-08-13
Location : Toronto, Canada!

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:53 pm

this post really makes fractals sound fun...

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
AOTT
How do you play without Shadow Form?
How do you play without Shadow Form?
avatar

Posts : 83
Join date : 2013-06-22
Age : 30
Location : CST (GMT-6)

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:56 am

At present my guardian has 40 AR but only PR ~20.  I need an ascended backpiece.  I can get that right now, actually, but 250 ecto isn't a thrilling prospect for me.
My mesmer is PR43 and has 45 AR with perfect zerk gear.  I have used my mesmer almost exclusively in FOTM.
My warrior has, at best, 20 AR, but perfect zerk gear, and no FOTM PR.   I would need guild commendations/laurels to get the accessories.  I try to be online to get GC's but things just... happen.  

It wouldn't be particularly difficult for me to get a zerker set of armor for my guardian for max DPS, but I find it difficult to survive without at least power/precision/toughness gear (which I currently use).  It's mostly because (and I hate to admit it) I haven't got as much time playing my guardian as my warrior, mesmer, or necromancer.

I currently lack the resources to craft an ascended weapon (neither artificer nor weaponsmith at 500.)  When the cost of the materials becomes low enough, and I have enough gold, I will have no problem crafting such an item.  

IT IS OF NOTE THAT IF YOU HAVE AN ASCENDED WEAPON/LEGENDARY, YOU MUST BE WIELDING IT TO GAIN THE BENEFIT OF THE AGONY RESISTANCE IT CONFERS.  IF YOU SWITCH WEAPON SETS TO WEAPONS WITHOUT AR, YOU LOSE THE BENEFIT OF THE AR FROM YOUR ASCENDED/LEGENDARY WEAPON WHEN IT IS NOT BEING USED.  THIS MEANS FOR MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS, YOU NEED TO HAVE 2 ASCENDED WEAPON SETS (Either 2x 2-handed weapons or 4x 1-handed/offhand weapons.)

If I FIND an appropriate ascended weapon, then I will be ready for 50+ on my mesmer.

I suppose my takeaway is, I've been ready for FOTM48+ for a while on my mesmer, and my guardian is pretty far up there as well.  

I totally understand your message here; to quote some random PUG, defensive stats (vitality, toughness, healing, etc.) are a moot point at high level FOTM.  If you're getting hit and you're not using some kind of total block (distortion/evasion/block/reflect), you're going to die.  DPS is (unfortunately) the only way to go at 40+.

EDIT: I've looked at the builds and confirmed that they are pretty much identical to what I am running.

_________________
Alice of the Twist
Leave anything that is absolutely impossible to me!


Last edited by AOTT on Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.fomj.net/
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:43 am

Thanks for your reply AOTT!

A few things on AR.  I avoided  mentioning AR in the guide because it isn't exactly a necessity. Instead AR is more of a crutch.  We used to have a guild member that had 25 AR and was doing 48 fractals before 35 AR was even possible.  The point is, a player can have all of the AR available but that will not prepare them for a 40+ and definitely not a 50+ (which is still locked and impossible atm). For a very experienced player AR is ONLY used at Maw.  Every boss in fractals, with the exception of Maw, has an attack that is completely avoidable. 

Most people are bad at fractals because they don't know how to react to the mobs or make major mistakes on the bosses.   This is why I wrote this guide.  I am also currently getting a third toon into the 30s.  When this happens I will be forming A LOT of fotm 38s.  I want to do more 38s with the guild so I can spot where people need improvements and who is ready for highend play.  There are many people in the guild that do fractals but I haven't had a chance to play with them, people such as you.  This way I, and others, can help critique peoples play style to be more efficient at fractals.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Benkensven
True Noob
True Noob


Posts : 45
Join date : 2013-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:14 am

First of all +1 to making this guide

You might want to include food/wrenches thats recommended for the slightly harder fractals, like dredgepotion for dredge and elemental for shaman.. possible others just for general smoothness Razz

General things:

The bosses agony attack usually grants them stability right before they cast it so dodging when you see it makes you evade it.

Never use immobolize on the grawl during the falling rocks part as it grants them the swiftness buffs. rings lines, kds knockbacks cripple frozen are better.

and i find it a bit weird claiming that DPS is the only thing needed, yet telling guards to anchor when they have some serious dps if specced for it Smile

_________________

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chucks
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll


Posts : 110
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:26 pm

1. You might want to include food/wrenches thats recommended for the slightly harder fractals, like dredgepotion for dredge and elemental for shaman.. possible others just for general smoothness 
Covering this shortly, just working out where to put it. 
2. The bosses agony attack usually grants them stability right before they cast it so dodging when you see it makes you evade it. 
Forgot about this, nice catch. We'll add it or the possible options to use for blocks on this attack.
3. Never use immobolize on the grawl during the falling rocks part as it grants them the swiftness buffs. rings lines, kds knockbacks cripple frozen are better.
They seemed to change this back to the way it should, immobilize helps in this part. 


As for the Anchor guard DPS I'll let Dallas cover that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Perf
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 31
Location : Raleigh, NC/St. Catharines, ON

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:05 pm

There's a good bit of information here. I'm glad someone took the time to incorporate this all into one thread. 

I am somewhat partial to the segregation of tiers in the post that tells people what to bring and what not to bring. But Dallas has a point that dps is extremely important at higher levels. Now that's not to say you shouldn't include players who fall into the t3 category. Toa's official run policy is the person who forms the run is responsible for forming a group that has the best possible chance for success. This means having as many t1 classes as possible.

Once they have more established guidelines for AR (I assume after the next fractals update including the new area)  I would like to see some toA based documentation on recommended aR levels. I understand AR isn't actually a requirement. however i have never seen a 48+ team go in with 5 characters of 0 AR. just a suggestion so that people in a similar situation to myself (approaching 48) can expand in fractals (this may need to go in a separate post) 

I really like what Dallas has done here. I have explored the idea of working more seriously on fractals and this gives me the information I (as well as most people) would need to make an informed decision.

Thank you

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:17 pm

Thanks for replying guys!

@perf:  You are right when it comes to ToA policy concerning the party formation and its organization.  The main issue, and the reason we started this guide, was because even if you formed a perfect party (G,G,W,W,M) someone may still be running a bad build. By A bad build I mean one that is not effectively adding to the synergy of the party and does not provide good dps.  An example of this would be a mesmer that runs a scepter/focus instead of a sword/focus.  So even though the party leader may get all the right professions, he will need to also ensure that those professions (and the players playing those professions) are running the most efficient builds.

@ben:  Chucks got most of it but I'll touch on the anchor v DPS guardian since this is a recurring issue that people bring up. First I want you to know I have run both builds extensively and I find the anchor superior for highend fractals.  No matter what build a guardian runs it will never compare to a warriors DPS.  With that being said, the party's warriors should be on their feet as much as possible.  Since this isn't the easiest of tasks for them their best bet is to not hold aggro.  Since most aggro is decided on by armor than to pull that aggro from your main DPS you do not want to have similar armor on something that is supposed to hold that aggro.  Thus an anchor build allows warriors in most scenarios to perform at their best.

Next the DPS argument is flawed.  This past week I have done a 48 almost everyday.  There have been more times than not that I have come out lacking a repair bill (no deaths).  This coupled with the idea that I still deal considerable damage with my crit/crit dmg build and survive well because of the toughness/vitality my build offers, allows for my survivability and my overall effectiveness.  I have seen MANY DPS guardians go into high level fractals and die over and over and over...while not really providing ANY increased DPS.  (and I'm not talking about bad players I'm talking about people like Dar).  The first thing to know about a "DPS" guardian is that they have to be on their feet...this becomes difficult (not impossible) when their zerker set literally has no health.  So not only do you have a guardian with HP lower than a warriors you have a guardian with about the same toughness...and no where near the same DPS.  Compare that to an anchor which can beat on anything for long periods of time coupled with him holding most aggro and letting the warriors dish out the real DPS.

I've saved this language from previous debates but a DPS guardian in a team setting in PvE is utter garbage.  It is a build that thinks it can do DPS and help the team but in reality it does little of both. An Anchor build like mine or strifes is designed to have constant DPS and party buffs.  If you want to DPS play a warrior.  If you want to be a good guardian play an anchor and provide efficient and effective synergy with your team.  As I've said, I've run both extensively.  When this argument first surfaced I tested it over and over and because of the time I've spent testing both builds I will not waste my breath on this argument here again.

P.S. this is all in the context of a 48 fractals.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Benkensven
True Noob
True Noob


Posts : 45
Join date : 2013-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:35 pm

@dallas..seems like our experience with the builds are very diffrent but it is as you said this is not the topic to talk about it. 

However.. You guys should probably add links to the builds people generally should be using

_________________

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:59 pm

Yeah we are trying to figure out how to add builds without taking up too much space or making it confusing.  those are all things to come though.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Frosty
Needs To Get Off The Forum
Needs To Get Off The Forum
avatar

Posts : 1028
Join date : 2011-01-05
Age : 34
Location : St. Louis, MO

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:33 pm

Skittles wrote:
Yeah we are trying to figure out how to add builds without taking up too much space or making it confusing.  those are all things to come though.
Links to Into the Mists build set ups are nice to cut down on clutter and get all your information across in one place -- traits/utilities/armor+runes/weps+sigils/food+oils.  Smile

_________________

Your friendly Legion Of Doom [LOD] liaison <3
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chucks
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll


Posts : 110
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:53 am

Updated Mesmer build with guide.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
woo tang clan
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll


Posts : 496
Join date : 2010-08-10

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:54 am

Best part was abyss's guides

"
[*]Discipline: Highest priority.  Make sure someone has it.

[*]Strength: Second Priority.  If there are at least two warriors in the party, one of them should have this.

[*]Defense: No.

[*]Tactics: Stahp.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chucks
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll


Posts : 110
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:33 pm

Updated to allow for quicker navigation

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Perf
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 31
Location : Raleigh, NC/St. Catharines, ON

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:56 am

its prob a lil late for this. can we redo the thread title? its a bit undefined for forum commoners

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Raccoon
True Noob
True Noob


Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-08-29

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Wouldn't it be better to have a bit more build diversity though?

For example, rather than having 2 guardians running tanky build, we'd have one guardian running shout-based tanky build and one guardian running consecration-based dps build.

And I believe an elementalist, thief, or engineer would be more useful in fractal than the mesmer.  At the presence of 2 guardians, the extra relection and pulls that the mesmer can provide doesn't matter much.

======================
=======Default 3========
======================

The default 3 members of the party would be 2 guardians and 1 warrior.

1 Tanky Guardian
[AH-Based] - High toughness and lots of self-heals, combine with guardian's arsenal of defensive boons make you pretty much a walking fortress.
[Blind-Spamming] - Sacrificing self-heals to spam blinds constantly, combining with the 2nd guardian's blinds, normal mobs won't be able to deliver many hits to party members. Doesn't work on bosses with defiants and dredges (immune to blinds), but otherwise is a much better defensive-support option compare to AH.

1 DPS guardian
[Consecration DPS] - In fractal, we usually only have room for one shout anyway.  Abandoning all shouts (leaving them to the tanky guardian to bring), we can bring Purging Flame and/or Hallowed Ground for a firefield to blast for mights.  This build provide the same projectile reflect/absorb as the tanky build, and blind enemies constantly.

1 DPS Warrior
[Axe/Mace-Axe/Warhorn] - Axe/Mace-Axe/Warhorn is great here because it provides speed buffs and a blast finisher (warhorn #5).  This is the best weapon combination for this team, also great if a Lightning-Hammer ele is present.


====================
=======Last 2========
====================

The remaining 2 party members are flexible.

Another Warrior?
A 2nd axe/mace-axe/warhorn warrior would be great, but going any more than 2 warriors in a team wouldn't be good because we'd be missing out the amazing utilities that other classes bring.

1 Conjurer Ele
[Lightning-Hammer Ele] - At the presence of a lightning hammer elementalist AND consecration guardian, warrior do not need to bring For Great Justice.  Between the fire fields from this ele and the guardian, we can keep a constant 20+ mights and over 1 min of fury, without For Great Justice. (Also, Fire Rush against a wall is just too good if the opportunity arises.)

Mesmer, Thief, Engineer?
Also, if a mesmer is presence, he/she can pick up the elementalist's lightning hammer to deal good damage AND give even more blinds + blast finishers. A good choice, but I honestly see bringing an ele is more useful than a mesmer.

Similarly, between a thief and an engineer, I find Engineer to be a greater asset in a team compare to a thief.  Engineer can bring ~12 or ~14 secs of party-wide stealth when necessary, can stack over 20 vulnerabilities on normal mobs and maintain 14+ vulnerablities on bosses by himself, have access to the 2nd-highest on-demand party-wide heals in the game, etc.  Engineer are just a great generalist, jack-of-all-trades type of class.

I don't have a level-80 ranger yet so I won't comment on it. As for necromancer, well, let's just say that any of the above classes are more useful than a necromancer.


P.S. By the way, this forum's WYSIWYG editor is a bit lacking. >_<
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Abyss
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 208
Join date : 2011-02-05
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:06 pm

I have a few problems with running Axe/Mace-Axe/Warhorn in fractals.  It's a good combination in dungeons where you're sitting on the face of every boss you fight, but that isn't the case in most fractals.  

My first problem is it's almost completely useless on any of the trash mob groups.  They already die so fast that stacking might beforehand is almost a complete waste of effort to coordinate.  Yes, might is good, but when your fights last around 20 seconds you aren't saving very much time at all by stacking it so purposefully.  You'll use it once before the fight, and then by the time it recharges (20 seconds), the fight should be about over.  This applies everywhere you fight trash mobs.  For comparison purposes, an average axe auto attack should do about 5466 per crit (which should be every hit) with only the 3 stacks of might from FGJ.  With an additional 3 stacks from warhorn blasting that number becomes 5665 per crit.  That's about a 3.6% damage increase.  Take into account that not everyone in the party will crit as often as a warrior, and the increase becomes much less significant.  Even assuming everyone in the party got a 3.6% damage increase, the reduction in time of a 20 second fight would be about 0.72 seconds.  You can keep it as a swap, but blasting is pretty pointless.

My other problem is in regards to boss fights, and this is also where I'll concede that it can be useful in some fractals.  When you're fighting some bosses you'll want to use a ranged weapon.  This is most likely going to be a longbow.  You'll throw down a fire field, blast it with skill 3, swap to warhorn, blast, wait 4 more seconds and swap back.  You'll get 6 stacks of might in a few seconds, which is good.   It's a problem because it's technically not Axe/Mace-Axe/Warhorn, and most of the time you won't be sitting with a longbow in your hand.  You'll only be using a longbow on the first fight of Cliffside, the last fight of Volcanic, in Underground Facility, and possibly on mossman.  In Urban people are spread out so there isn't an emphasis on might stacking, although it would still be useful for personal DPS.  In spite of all of the positives here, the base damage modifiers, crit damage and skill specific coefficients are also significantly lower on longbow (SSC for longbow autoattack is only .6 compared to the average SSC of the axe's autoattack which is 1.2, BDM lowers by .05, and Crit Damage lowers by .1).  This means the DPS increase provided by a might stack gets reduced fairly significantly compared to the 3.6% increase while wielding axe/mace.  When you consider that you also probably won't have a fire field to blast every 20 seconds due to skill priority the DPS increase is reduced even more than when might was up for the entirety of the fight.  This is slightly remedied by the doubling of might stacks from the 2 blasts, but the returns are still fairly low.


I know nothing of Guardians, so I won't comment on that.  I can say I completely agree with your comments on eles and necros.

_________________

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Raccoon
True Noob
True Noob


Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-08-29

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:59 pm

Abyss wrote:
My first problem is it's almost completely useless on any of the trash mob groups.  They already die so fast that stacking might beforehand is almost a complete waste of effort to coordinate.
This is assuming that the warrior is the only one that's blasting; no, no, this is a team effort.  Every member in the team (using the builds listed above) has fatal flaw, and the strategy itself has fatal flaws, but the team synergy helps every member cover each other's weaknesses. 

The firefield comes from the elementalist then the consecration guardian.  This means at least half the fight the firefield would be up.

1st Point:
Warrior would only blast once (at the beginning of the fight), and dps away.  It's fine if we go axe/mace-greatsword and don't blast at all, too, because the continuous blasts come from the elementalist and guardian, which are part of their attacks anyway (or elementalist and mesmer, if a mesmer is present in the team). 

2nd Point:
You're thinking of stacking mights then enter combat.  No, no, that's mistaken.  This is stacking mights as we enter combat. 


Abyss wrote:
My other problem is in regards to boss fights, and this is also where I'll concede that it can be useful in some fractals.  When you're fighting some bosses you'll want to use a ranged weapon. 
We stay in melee most of the time. We should only switch to longbow when necessary, rather than always carrying it around and waste a valuable weapon set. Let's take a look at the list:

quick list:
 

We mostly only go range at bosses.  We have plenty of time to equip a longbow before entering these boss fights.  In these cases, we don't need to bother with warhorn blasting at all.


.

These are team builds; they work because of the team and they exist because we have a team.  Taking them individually, they're all weak. 

Let's take  quick look:
Guardian build: The blinds from the guardian alone aren't enough, but the blinds from 2 guardians and the ele or one guardian and the ele are enough to keep the mobs almost always blind.  For examples, the consecration dps guardian wouldn't survive long in 48 fractal without the tanky guardian helping out.

Warrior build: The build is rather well-known, but hte utilities and skillsets are selfless.   For example it assume that the fury would come from another source (because we choose to bring Warbanner instead of Signet of Rage), etc.  If this was individual play, 30/25/0/0/15 would be a better build.

Elementalist Build: A 30/0/0/10/30 would stack mights and fury much, much, much better than this lightning hammer build. It can stack ~20 to 25 mights and over 1.5 to 2 mins of fury alone.  Alone!  But the lightning hammer works better here because everyone in the team contribute. The build listed here only stack up to ~45 or so secs of fury and ~15 mights, the rest come from other party members (via blasting, Virtue of Justice, etc).

Many more to list, if given the time and context.  But hey, the post's getting long Razz
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Abyss
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 208
Join date : 2011-02-05
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:51 pm

Raccoon wrote:
This is assuming that the warrior is the only one that's blasting; no, no, this is a team effort.  Every member in the team (using the builds listed above) has fatal flaw, and the strategy itself has fatal flaws, but the team synergy helps every member cover each other's weaknesses. 

The firefield comes from the elementalist then the consecration guardian.  This means at least half the fight the firefield would be up.

1st Point:
Warrior would only blast once (at the beginning of the fight), and dps away.  It's fine if we go axe/mace-greatsword and don't blast at all, too, because the continuous blasts come from the elementalist and guardian, which are part of their attacks anyway (or elementalist and mesmer, if a mesmer is present in the team). 

2nd Point:
You're thinking of stacking mights then enter combat.  No, no, that's mistaken.  This is stacking mights as we enter combat. 
You're misinterpreting what I was trying to say there.  I'll admit that I worded it poorly for the point I was trying to get across.  I was providing an example of a single blast finisher to show the maximum effect a warrior with a warhorn can produce when it comes to might stacking, and the difference the warhorn makes is very negligible.  This isn't taking into account any other blast finishers for a reason (for the record mesmers have none), and that is because I'm talking only in the context of what weapon sets the warrior is or should be using.  This is not by any means an argument against might stacking.  Of course the fire fields are going to come from somewhere else because there was no mention of a longbow in that part of the post.  Maybe I could have clarified that more by mentioning it less than 0 times in the paragraph, but I digress.  Of course the might stacks are popped by the warrior before entering combat, because you'd be attacking less otherwise.  I'd like to clarify again that I'm not arguing with the inclusion of might stacking by way of blast finishers.  In that first paragraph I'm arguing against a single 20 second cooldown blast finisher on a Warrior for fighting trash mobs.


Quote :








quick list:

Swamp Fractal
Bloomhunger:  Full melee
Mossman: Full range or mix range and melee

Urban Battleground (the Ascalon Fractal)
Range on the hot oil at the beginning (if an ele is present, full melee because Ice Bow's Ice Storm kill those oils so fast and can hit 2 oils each time),
melee the rest of the way, until boss where we have to go range.

Snowblind Fractal (the one with ice ele and Sons of Svanir)
Full melee until the final boss

Underground Facility Fractal (the dredge fractal)
Full melee until final boss

Volcanic Fractal
Full melee until final boss (or could go range at mid-boss, too)

Uncategorized Fractal (the one with lots of knock-back harpies and the Asura with golems)
Full melee, a bit of mixed melee/range at mid-boss (Old Tom)

Cliffside Fractal (the one with the Curtis Hammer)
Mix melee/range at teh beginning, 
then melee until final boss

Underwater Fractal
Underwater weapons, different discussion here


We mostly only go range at bosses.  We have plenty of time to equip a longbow before entering these boss fights.  In these cases, we don't need to bother with warhorn blasting at all.
I wrote this once in the warrior build linked in the original post, but I can explain it here so you don't have to try and find it.
 
Abyss' DPS Warrior Build wrote:
A ranged weapon is recommended for fighting the following bosses.  This means a longbow unless otherwise noted.  Separated by fractal they include:




  • Swampland: Mossman (Melee way is an exception)

  • Urban: Captain Ashym at <50% Health

  • Snowblind: None

  • Underground Facility: Dredge Powersuit (Rifle), Rampaging Ice Elemental (Rifle)

  • Volcanic: Legendary Imbued Shaman

  • Uncategorized: Champion Fire Shaman, Champion Ettin


  • Cliffside: Archdiviner (First fight only)

Since I haven't elaborated on it yet in the guide, these are the only fights were longbow should be equipped but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be used.  The differences between our lists are the ones I'll elaborate on a little bit.  

  • Swampland: Mossman is technically a difference, and I haven't written about this yet, but you're mostly going to be following him around and beating on him with an axe unless he's attacking you.  He focuses on one person and if you stay behind him you won't get hit very often in melee range.  Longbow swap is good if you take heavy damage and need to pull back for a bit.
  • Urban: You will be in melee range of Ashym until he hits about 50% health, then you will range, so you'll want axe/mace-longbow.
  • Snowblind: There is absolutely no reason to range this guy.
  • Underground facility: No differences
  • Volcanic: No differences except there is no point to ranging the Shaman during your first fight with him.  Just max melee and don't stand in his AoE.
  • Uncategorized: Stand inside Old Tom.  You'll take more damage against him if you range him.  You don't want range in the final fight either, as you'll want to kill things as quickly as possible.
  • Cliffside:  There's no point in ranging him in the final fight unless you aren't the warrior killing the cultists around the room.  You'll want to be able to deal as much damage as possible for this fight, and you only actually have to dodge him until he drops the hammer the first time.


I'm not going to argue with the rest of your post because everything else you're saying is accurate.  Might stacking is good, team synergy is good.  We're only at odds because we were apparently talking about two reasonably different things.

I will make one more point about the 30/25/0/0/15 build you mentioned though.  You would be losing 150 power, 15% crit chance, 15% crit damage, and a few stacks of maintainable might for a 10% base damage modifier, 250 precision (11% crit chance), and about 3 stacks of maintainable vulnerability.  I'd say that's a negligible difference.

_________________

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Mitch
Admin
avatar

Posts : 728
Join date : 2010-08-09
Age : 40
Location : Indianapolis

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:49 am

Do not turn this into a debate thread over what is good and what is not or I will lock it. 
This post was designed by a handful of officers that are experimenting with various tactics and combinations in high level fractals. Their guide is not even complete yet, as this is a work in progress.

If you have suggestions for them or would like to brainstorm other ideas with them please make general notes about the changes you are proposing here and then discuss it IN GAME or ON TS.

A difference of opinions on a forum only turns into rage-wars. Talk it out on TS.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Draezha
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2013-06-20
Age : 27
Location : Colorado

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:11 pm

Hey, I was shown a strategy yesterday on cliffside fractal by digilodger. It went really smooth and I'd love to suggest it if you haven't tried it before. The strategy is for the chest seal. Hit me up in game or on TS.

_________________
愛と痛み
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Skittles
Bridge Troll
Bridge Troll
avatar

Posts : 260
Join date : 2010-11-14
Age : 28
Location : Texas

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:06 pm

Made Some updates for quality and added Ele Conjure build

To be added:
Going to completely change the team section.
Popular DPS Guardian Build
Some updated tactics for the individual fractals

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chucks
Jungle Troll
Jungle Troll


Posts : 110
Join date : 2012-10-21
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Updated to include Maw / Suggestions for Progression

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Examining the Fractals Paradigm   

Back to top Go down
 
Examining the Fractals Paradigm
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Fractals?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tears Of The Ascended :: Dungeons-
Jump to: