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PostSubject: Dem Deeps   Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:35 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:31 pm

My level 40 ranger is unstoppable.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:44 pm

He would have done more damage with a lightning hammer!
I remember we did a guild run not so long ago with the same team except we had a mesmer (me) instead of a ranger. My Time Warp wasn't recharged from Subject Alpha, and we killed the Evolved Destroyer just as fast. I don't think my mesmer was responsible for much of the damage; I bring it on dungeon runs for utility, and if I wanted pure DPS I'd bring an ele or something. Rangers' utility is not even comparable. Also note that this guy DID pop his elite (although it has a shorter cooldown so whatever).
That said, it looks like he has a pretty strong build, but I still don't see any reason to bring a ranger when there's always another profession that can do the job better. Don't get me wrong, I love rangers, and they're nothing like as horrible as they were in GW1, but unlike in GW1, there is nothing they can do that ever makes them a good choice for a dungeon run.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:25 pm

lol super awsm build

best ranger build na=have 3 wars n a guard with 25 might stacks n 25 blust stacks in party
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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:05 am

Misty:  I think the point of this is, more than anything (or at least the reason I'm posting this here), that it is perfectly viable to roll a ranger in a dungeon in place of something like a warrior.  Especially on casual runs.  I'd like to think this is important, because for someone like me who always rolls warrior in our dungeon runs, it's nice to break out of the DR and still bring a high amount of DPS to the party.  It also performed better than Strife's warrior builds on the Veteran Risen Giants, so it isn't something to laugh at.  The spirit of frost you see him use is a party-wide buff that increases damage by roughly 7%.  Also, I've said it before; WATER FIELDS!!!!!!11! (not that impressive, I know)

Regardless, I'm going to start using this on 2nd rounds of CoE at least because I miss Ranging Bowman something fierce.  Be warned.

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 horrible as they were in GW1
I will cut you.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:36 am

Let's stop being so close-minded and embrace new things.  Like rangers.  Or other "alternative" ideas.  We might learn something.  Or get a little excited.  We might even... LIKE it...

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:41 am

AOTT wrote:
Let's stop being so close-minded and embrace new things.  Like rangers.  Or other "alternative" ideas.  We might learn something.  Or get a little excited.  We might even... LIKE it...

Ranger was my first 80 and I've played it extensively in all the dungeons. I like rangers, I really do. I don't think bringing a ranger in a dungeon is going to ruin the experience for anyone, but... if you want to maximize effectiveness (which I personally do), there is never a reason to play ranger. The strongest ranger builds (like the one in the video) are just like weak warriors. and when rangers actually trait to do their own special thing (pets and bows), they become even less useful.
If you want to change things up a little bit (and you're honestly sick of all 7 other professions), okay, bring a ranger. If you're running the same build as the guy in the video, fine! You'll be bringing a decent contribution to the team. If you're running a traditional ranger build, please warn the team because you're a lot less effective. On the other hand, if you actually just want to avoid DR and still be useful... level a second warrior.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:34 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:51 pm

The ranger build isn't the one in the video.  That one is 20/25/0/25/0. Here's the video in case you're actually interested.

The warrior build is also fairly subpar.  It's only decent if you sit on greatsword the entire time and don't swap to axe/mace at all during the run, which is just not that great because it means you're auto attacking with a greatsword during cooldowns.
30/0/0/10/30 is quite a bit more effective dps wise for gs a/m.  The only benefit to running anything in the arms line is that it can keep 2 vuln stacks up on an enemy.  With that build you're losing the vulnerability from ace 2 and mace 4, which is ultimately a more effective source of vuln.  If you swap to axe/mace with that build to use those skills you're losing dps because you're so heavily specc'd for greatsword and you can't switch back for 10 seconds.  You have to sit on gs with it.  The might you get from swapping with 25 in discipline is enough to cancel out the effects of forceful greatsword and then some since you can also use a sigil of battle with the 30/0 build.  The ultimate advantage to running 30/0 is that you can swap out the gs for something else if you're going to do high level fractals or fight lupicus; both of which are places where gs becomes less effective because fights last longer.  And you can even put the GS on after you're done fighting the longer fights.  You don't even have to pay to retrait for the more effective weapon set in those scenarios either.
Lets also not forget that BP and HF aren't working as intended so warrior damage is still a bit lower than it should be.
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level a second warrior.
I've already done that.  Rolling from warrior to warrior is much less fun than something with a little bit of variety though.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:03 pm

TBF, Evolved Destroyer is pretty easy to kill in one go as long as your whole team is set for straight damage, regardless of composition (ie, non-condition/DoT builds).  TW helps in cases with less overall dps, but isn't necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:49 pm

I'm still not sold on your warrior build, Abyss. You have a useful adept trait, and you're basically sacrificing +10% damage (Attack of Opportunity) for Fast Hands. But it is possible to have an effective rotation between GS and axe/mace without Fast Hands - just use your normal rotations twice with Rush and a few auto-attacks in between.
If you're bored of playing 2 warriors, why not make a mesmer? They're in pretty high demand...

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:52 pm

G U I L D W A R S T W O !

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:35 pm

I don't get why you don't just run 30-25-0-0-15 if you want fast hands since versatile power and sigil of battle can't really compete with forceful greatsword since it only maintains about 9 or so stacks of might without counting FGJ plus sacrificing the crit chance alone probly makes your average dps way worse than 30-30-0-10-0.  The 30-25-0-0-15 probably has an overall similar/higher average GS dps as the 30-30-0-10-0 build because of the crit dmg and you have a higher best case scenario DPS without even counting the fact that you can switch some axe offset.

If anything 1 warrior should run the Empower Allies and the rest spec for fast hands for the best dps.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:31 pm

I run empower allies on my warrior and, I did say, ignore the rifle on that, because I do use axe/mace as the second set.  If you're still confused I can show you a slightly corrected build that is exactly the same with a different weapon set.  Also, we've already discussed the difference between 30/25/0/0/15 warrior and 30/30/0/10/0 warrior in another thread, it comes down to a little more personal damage vs. a barely noticeable overall party boost (it says 150 power, but it's really like, 75.)

  Allright, so here's what's being used in the video, I don't think I made any mistakes but hey it's me so who knows i might have accidentally started with a necromancer template because I'm a superderp:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMEQNBMhV6koiILrqwKIWLDELF7Z/cGHKReG+PUloEvA-jQyAYLioRyPIFBgskMKDUyrIasF3ioxqrxUuER1A-e

I feel like the 25 in Nature is wasted because he's not using Strength of Spirit to take full advantage of all the vitality.  And I don't think the 5% damage bonus is worth jamming 25 in the line when it doesn't contribute a whole lot to the overall damage, because damage is all we really care about, right?
He's using a sword/warhorn.  Ok, well, the sword doesn't do as much damage as the axe, BUT the warhorn does give Call of the Wild.  I considered it instead of dual axe initially, but I decided that it wasn't worth it compared to Whirling Defense.  He's also using a shortbow, which doesn't do as much direct damage as the longbow.  Basically, as long as we're kicking a dead horse for raw DPS, we might as well be using the build I initially showed, which is ever so slightly superior in that respect.  After all, it's all about how well you can dodge, not your actual ability to soak damage.  That's what the guardian is for, right?

He's also using sigil of perception (precision stacks) and sigil of the night (10% damage at night).  That's a terrible idea, precision just doesn't seem worth it to stack like power does, he ought to use Bloodlust.  There's a reason perception sigils are dirt cheap.  "Night" is a really odd concept in gw2, some dungeons are apparently perpetual night, so ok, but others are not, so he'd be better off with Force so his sigil is always "on" or my personal preference, Fire/Bloodlust.  But we can argue about sigils all day (or night, as it were.)

The pet.  Ignore the pet.  The pet is background noise, it is going to die, and there is nothing you can do about it but accept it and build in anticipation of it dying, so use Beastmaster's Bond to profit as its life force seeps away.  Who cares WHICH pet you use, really.  You want weird?  Use a pig.  You want something else?  Use something else.

Warriors.  What a rut.  Doing the same thing over and over again, how boring.  That's not even clever.  You want to feel clever?  Make the ranger work as it stands.

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PostSubject: Re: Dem Deeps   Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:50 am

AOTT wrote:
barely noticeable overall party boost (it says 150 power, but it's really like, 75.)
Except that barely noticeable boost is about 8%.  The last thing I'll say about warriors in this thread (because Evo's right and I don't feel like continuing this; it's bad enough that I kinda started it) is that as long as 1 person has empowered allies, the differences between builds is so small it just comes down to personal preference.  If you care to look into it further, Nike's thread on guru has all the people talking about all the builds.

Back to rangers.
AOTT wrote:
I feel like the 25 in Nature is wasted because he's not using Strength of Spirit to take full advantage of all the vitality. 


 Except 5% of 1166 vitality is 58.3 power.  Not really as useful as throwing in an extra 35% chance to increase partywide dps by 10% though.
Also, the shortbow isn't for attacking.  You don't swap off sword warhorn with that build.  The warhorn 4 is pretty much like a second auto attack, and pets can stay alive if you swap them out and use the jaguar's stealth.  It can be tricky though, there's no doubt about that.  They aren't background noise, and pigs and longbows are why people hate rangers to begin with. 

 
AOTT wrote:
After all, it's all about how well you can dodge, not your actual ability to soak damage
There isn't any damage soaking in the build.  It's glass.

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