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Draezha
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PostSubject: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:26 am

Thief has been a long time favorite for me of the different classes, but I have only ever really played it in SPvP/TPvP and I'm finally getting around to leveling my Thief up. As most people probably already know as far as Thief goes in PvE it's a somewhat controversial class among some people. I've checked around, seen forums posts and build suggestions from a multitude of people, but I still have been far from sure as to what would be ideal for a Thief in dungeon play. I'm almost completely positive that zerker gear is what I'm looking at, but I have no idea as far as weapons/traits go what might be ideal for Thief.
 
I've read some about Sword/Pistol being the best with Shortbow or Pistol/Pistol as weapon swaps, due to the ability to steal boons with sword and also Black Powder. As far as traits go I'm at a loss. I'm really only familiar with Thief in SPvP.

TL;DR -- I'm looking to ToA for some suggestions and I'm curious as to what some of you who have a Thief might run or what is most effective (in your opinion) in a dungeon environment for Thief, because I will still probably primarily run my Thief in SPvP but outside of that I'm only interested in Dungeons.

~Thanks <3

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:24 pm

Bear in mind that Larcenous Strike (boon stealing) is actually a dual skill from sword/dagger, so you won't get it with sword/pistol. That said, I still think sword/pistol is great, but don't take my word for it koz I'm bad at thief.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:43 pm

Oh right, yeah I was just looking at that. Of course you can always swap depending on the situation I suppose. Thanks for the heads up anyways. Some of the forums I've read on it are pretty vague and forget to mention little details like that. I never use Sword in SPvP on Thief so I wouldn't have known the better.

The sword/pistol is pretty nice, because you get decent damage output, and Black Powder (with the right traits) can essentially be spammed and it applies blind every second for 4 seconds and is a smoke field, so you get even more blind from it really, meaning that you can effectively blind tank enemies using it. Though I also like the ability to use Death Blossom with dagger/dagger because of the built in evade, massive bleed stacks and it does decent damage...

I'm really tossed about the whole thing, which I suppose is why I'm looking for advice, but as I'm noticing there are not a lot of Thief players, due to it's controversial capabilities in dungeons that in my opinion have been created by people who play Thief cause it's the "cool class" and ultimately just suck with it. I call that the "Cool Class Theory on why Thieves suck 90% of the time" because honestly, I don't understand how a Thief could go down so easily.

If an Elementalist can go full 'zerker and stay alive with a lower health pool and naturally lower armor rating, then why can't a Thief also do the same thing and stay alive, with a higher natural health pool and higher natural armor rating. Not to mention that Thieves have like three times as many defensive utilities as an Elementalist and they can easily put out damage on par with an Elementalist or a Warrior. (This is all my opinion as someone who knows Thief pretty well, but again I play Thief in SPvP)

I've been thinking a balanced build with traits something like  25/30/0/*5/10 (*The 5 possibly being able to go to one of the other trees, but getting the swiftness is nice.) I have no idea. Most other builds are pretty straight forward, but the mass majority of Thief players are either strictly in WvW or just baddies, so it's hard to say.

*Edit* -- The 25/30/0/5/10 set up I was thinking about: 
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa6alUmCOneS6E+JFy2jeqC5JvCklODaql6FA-jwyAYrIiuAwXKzEhhoxHCdyLipvhs2HKiGruGT5SEVbzLiWdUARE-e

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:39 am

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsa6alUmKOHey9E+5Ey2jeqC5J/DklODa6lA-jwyAYLBR8lyMFBisIESZwoPwJvIm+GyaVsIas6aMlLRUNA-e

This is my modification to what you've got here.  I've altered your armor and weapons because although I see what you're doing with the beryl orbs (your version had 3k more health) I do just fine with full zerk, and you're better at dodging.

I don't think that the 5% crit chance on your weapons is worth it, you can get much more out of other sigils.  I've chosen sigils of fire because a thief tends to have AoE problems to begin with.  

I've got runes of Lyssa on there, because if you pop a dagger storm with Lyssa runes, suddenly instead of just being stable, you gain ALL boons, which will improve your damage and survival.

I don't think that 5 in acrobatics just for that burst of swiftness is worth it when you can get 3 more initiative in your pool, which is basically an extra attack.  I also changed Dagger Training for Combined Training (Deadly Arts), since there's no longer a dagger involved and dual skills are the major damage source from thieves anyway.

I've flipped the weapon set to sword/pistol.

I changed the utilities but it's a moot point, since you'll be flipping them for different skills as situations appear.  Smokescreen situation vs. shadow refuge situation etc.  however, Assassin's Signet + Haste + dual skill is an insanely powerful combo and you should really consider it.

Don't bother with bleed stacks, none of your equipment is specc'd for it and you only have +100 condition damage from Trickery with your build, and +150 condition damage from my build.

When you compare the builds, please remove the super-expensive infusions from your accessories (even you would find them to be expensive) and your consumable.

ORIGINAL (sans cons/infusion): 
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa6alUmCOneS6E+JFy2jeqC5JvCklODaql6FA-jgyAYrIiuAwXKzEhhoxHCdyLipvhs2HKiGruGT5SEVDA-e
SUGGESTION: 
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsa6alUmKOHey9E+5Ey2jeqC5J/DklODa6lA-jwyAYLBR8lyMFBisIESZwoPwJvIm+GyaVsIas6aMlLRUNA-e

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:07 am

I had already changed my mind on the infusion since, Dagger Storm is really situational to be honest, because it makes you too vulnerable even with boons. If you're using Dagger Storm at the right times, you shouldn't even need boons or anything to really keep you alive. It's not exactly something you pop every time it's up. Thieves rely on their utilities for defense and in Dagger Storm you lose the use of most of that defense. The reason I went with beryl orbs instead of ruby orbs or anything else is because the only thing I'm losing is like 5% crit chance that I don't really need. The weapon modifications weren't set in stone either, because I wasn't sure what I really wanted on there. The flame blast is probably something I'll be going for. I use that sigil on almost every character I have for DPS, spare my elementalist due to her build.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:19 pm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsa6alUmCOneS6E+5Ey2jeqC5J/DklODa6lA-jADBYLDiGfJZUAwEEgkFBhwAiyAL5pIastBFRjVXDT5iIq2IuIa1RBERA-e

Updated build, I'm pretty happy with what I have there. After review and testing that's what I'm settled on. I may make a few very minor changes. Also found out that if you transmute a legendary it does not lose it's effects. So I don't give a fuck, and when they add ascended weapons I can just transmute it again to an ascended weapon.

I will probably be using Sword/Pistol on Thief, (Thank you Jack, I tested it and I like it) but I will probably keep a dagger/dagger set and short bow on me for some variation from time to time.

Also thinking of experimenting with a rampager's - dagger/dagger setup.. might be fun, but not something I'd use, 'cause obviously zerker is better.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:00 pm

Force/night is the best DPS sigils...

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:45 pm

Benkensven wrote:
Force/night is the best DPS sigils...

 I beg to differ, Fire sigils produce burst AOE damage at critical damage.  Since almost all damage builds use high crit chance and damage, a Fire rune would result in the most damage output over the most number of targets.  Force/Night sigils are better for builds with low crit chance, but even then I'd probably use Fire instead.

You also have to consider whether force/night would result in more damage than Bloodlust at 25 stacks.  Sometimes it's better to go Force, sometimes it's better to go Bloodlust.  (low power --> bloodlust, high power ---> Force) SOMEONE WITH BETTER MATH SKILLS confirm this for me.

And finally, Night runes only work at night.  Though that might not be a huge issue since a lot of us have jobs or classes or are otherwise occupied during the day.

Anyway I think this is a mathematical issue.  I'm terrible at math but I think I'm right.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:28 pm

Power increases damage by a linear factor. 1:1 Your attack is calculated from your averaged weapon damage and your power added together (power + weapon damage) = attack.

Superior Sigil of Force gives 5% increased damage which is essentially 5% increased from your current attack. So in my case, where I am currently with this build. 3480 attack, 5% of 3480 is 174 meaning that essentially my attack is increased to 3654 -- That being said, it is also not account for armor which subtracts from attack directly (calculated after toughness) -- Now, also... Superior Sigil of the Night only works at night and yes it is a 10% bonus to damage, but that is extremely inconsistent, what are you going to do, only do dungeons at night? That to me is just silly. (I'll be honest here, the details we are discussing are so fine that it's literally just preference after a certain point) Now assuming you had the 10% bonus from Superior Sigil of the Night that is calculated before Superior Sigil of Force, so 10% of 3480 is 348 + 174 from Superior Sigil of Force = 4002 attack. (Yes this is a high number, but again it is not accounting for armor and it has an extremely inconsistent factor, so I'm only going to go with the Superior Sigil of Force in this argument leaving me at 3654 attack)

Now, if I have between 10-20 stacks on Superior Sigil of Bloodlust that's between 100-200 power and considering that Superior Sigil of Flame is an AoE burst damage that is a guarenteed critical based off my power that triggers on a 30% chance on crit every 5 seconds (internal cooldown) then that means every 5 seconds I am doing an AoE burst of around 4-6k damage ontop of the damage that I am already putting out.

I'm not here to argue, because as I said, it's preference, but I would prefer consistency over a percent increase that is extremely inconsistent. Either way, I could have this build going on for years with people telling me what they think is best and what they think is wrong etc. I've already changed several variables multiple times as a result of differing opinions and I've settled on something that I liked. You can optimize a build all you want, but in the end it's all about results and if you're getting what you need to get done, done.

I appreciate your suggestion, anyways.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:22 am

Having a stacking sigil and then switching to  another weeping with another sigil is obv the best so u get the most out of your well a.. And are you sure flame crits? Cause back when I used it it never crit and only dealt around 1k DMG at best in my full zerker set... But if it's like you guys say It's a totally viable sigil...

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:22 am

I'm almost 100% positive it crits, when I get the proc on it with my sword it is a very noticable amount of damage even if you don't catch the number. I've been using it for a long time on my guardian and now on my thief and it does seem to work pretty damn well. It is listed for a high price on the trading post, not that that counts for anything really, but I'd assume it's viable if it's in high demand. It seems to put out a lot of damage.

Using it on swap instead of on my main set is pretty good. I mean... I might try something else down the road, but for now I'm pretty happy with my set-up that I have now.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:50 pm

The fire sigil cannot crit. If you have a high crit chance and crit damage, you're more likely to get a bigger benefit from a flat damage boost.
Sigil of the Night takes effect during the game's night time, not your own timezone. That means the day/night cycle that rotates every two hours. Also, most dungeons are permanently in night. You can check by using an AC weapon and seeing if it glows, or certain other glow-in-the-dark items like the Chainsaw the Skeleton mini.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:29 pm

Even if it doesn't crit it's still doing 1400-1500 damage for me on every proc. That's STILL an extra 1450~ damage every 5 seconds.

As opposed to only a couple hundred damage consistently, it evens out. Either way I think you're all missing the point. As I said, at this point the details are fine enough to where you're literally discussing preference and I've already settled on what I like. I asked for suggestions, I got suggestions. I didn't ask to be berated by your opinions into using what you want me to.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:38 pm

Nah it's cool; I'm not saying it's a bad choice, especially for a thief, as you will trigger the blast more often than other professions (fast dagger attacks, high crit chance). It also scales with power. Personally I use Sigil of Blood, which is very similar except it makes me die less koz I'm a bad thief.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:20 am

Mistress Misty wrote:
...I'm a bad thief.

 fixed
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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:52 am

This song is you.


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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:50 am

in fact you're so bad that I got auto-promoted to leader in GW1; clearly the game recognises trash when it doesn't log on for 2 months =P

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:38 pm

There are custom PvP arenas available, just buy one, set it up for dueling, and settle it.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:28 pm

AOTT wrote:
There are custom PvP arenas available, just buy one, set it up for dueling, and settle it.

 What are you talking about? xD

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:12 pm

Haven't you seen them?  You can buy a custom arena kit from the gem store.  You can choose which maps are played and even set them to 1v1.  You can make them exclusive to specific people and I think guilds too.  You can also block individuals from joining them.  They're actually pretty cool, but they're expensive, so I haven't gotten around to buying one myself yet.

 EDIT:  Link http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Custom_Arena_Starter_Kit

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:47 pm

AOTT wrote:
There are custom PvP arenas available, just buy one, set it up for dueling, and settle it.

 What is it?

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:01 am

Settling who has the 'better' subset of the English language, ofc. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:29 pm

rhokk wrote:
Settling who has the 'better' subset of the English language, ofc. Wink

 I would totally duel you for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 pm

A battle for the ages! Don your armor, ditch your honor and realize that you're going to lose! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Thief Suggestions   Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:40 pm

i`d like to see this duel maybe i could sell tickets Razz
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